James Shares a Few of His Ideas on Liberty, the Military, Podcasting and Much More!

 Welcome to the Gone Newclear segment of the Ba Vojdaan Podcast with James and Sana. This is James going solo today as I usually do for this portion of the podcast feed. But I want to share with you an interview that I just did with my new. Brian O'Leary. Brian is the host of the O'Leary Review podcast and he's also a coem alongside myself in an accountability group in the school of life that is, was started by Tom Woods, who's a great libertarian scholar personality brand.

It's just got a great podcast, a lot of great things going, and I was really excited to hear about these accountability. And I'm I'm always looking for ways that I can hone my own abilities and maybe get people aware of services that I offer in the podcasting, in the digital media sphere. And Brian is made a decision to just get out and just publish stuff and just talk and sometimes you just need to get out there.

Do stuff until you find your voice or you find what you believe is your calling. Sometimes it, it's as simple as just doing stuff and then you figure out what you should be doing or what, like a higher purpose, for lack of a better term. And that's exactly what he's doing. He's on a journey of discovery and we just had a great time talking and I realized that since this was going on his show, I.

Realized that this, there's a lot of good information and people could learn a little bit about myself, and we also talked a little bit about podcasting. I think I was able to share something that resembles advice regarding podcasting and publishing and whatnot, but I will allow more discerning ears and minds than myself to decide whether that actually happened or not.

So here is my conversation with Brian O'Leary, who you can find on the web at Brian d O'Leary dot. .

Welcome back to the O'Leary Review podcast. Brian O'Leary here with you today. We're here with James New. Yes. Now James is a fellow member with me of what something my, maybe my podcast is turned into the people from the Tom Woods School of Life.

Cuz I, I say that this podcast is about serious content, amids an unserious culture, and we have had some. Other people outside of Tom's orbit on the show. But we're better to find serious people and serious content than within the Tom Wood School of Life. And now I'm here with James Newcomb, and I just wanna welcome James

here today.

Thank you, Brian. Although I'll do my best to be serious, but I can't make any promises.

Seriously, you can be a little lighthearted, but this serious content is what we're. We're serious people.

One of the best quotes I've ever heard is Uhhuh General Douglas MacArthur in his farewell address to the cadets at West Point.

If you ever have a chance to listen to that, Get it. It's a great address. But one thing that he said that has stuck with me throughout the years is always be serious, but never take yourself too seriously. That's great.

I wish I thought about that earlier because one of the, one of the things is , your little taken aback by, by my seriousness and gonna take MacArthur's.

Oh yeah. Advice.

So here's Brian and people are listening to this on audio and he's sitting, I get on the Zoom call with him and he's wearing this suit and a. And it's just a sport coat. Whatever it is, it, it looks like a suit to me. But most podcasters, they're like, if they comb their hair, they're, they think they're dressing up.

Yeah. And here's Brian. He just takes himself way too seriously. So we'll see. We'll see how this

goes. , . Fair enough. So I mentioned James, that you and James Z and I are in what do we call these accountability groups within the Tom Woods School of Life, we've had to do a bunch of, or I've had to do a bunch of changes of time, and then James is in, now in my group, and we got to talking and said, oh, we have some, a lot of similar interests, so let's get it on a podcast.

So James, What how, what led you to Tom Woods?

I first heard of Tom Woods in: 2005

I was gonna say.

Yeah, like a little known now, but like you go back sixties and seventies

for sure. Fifties, sixties, and seventies. They were forced to be reckoned with when, by the time I. Involved with them in like the early aughts. They, they had dissipated considerably, but they're still around and I still connect with some of the coordinators anyway Tom spoke at.

An event that they put on and they had a recording of his speech, and I played it for some of the members at some of the meetings that I attended as a coordinator. So that's how I heard of him. , I knew that he was really, smart and well accomplished, obviously to be invited by. An organization like the Birch Society. I had just heard of him throughout the years, throughout books, the Meltdown, and just followed him very. much at a distance. And then when I was in Korea, in the military, I heard of his show. I think I was just surfing podcasts and Okay. There's the Tom Woods show, and I think I found him probably at episode 40.

So I'm basically, from the very beginning, I've been listening to his show and I've he and I have exchanged emails. Tom has changed quite a bit since, just in the time that I've been listening to his show, as we all do over time. It's really interesting to see how his own career and his own broadcasting persona, his public persona, has changed drastically.

J just since the show started. But here we are. We both joined up this School of Life, which is phenomenal. It's wonderful and the best thing for me is to see that there are more people than just Tom. People who are, yeah, , smart, really bright. You get to see a little bit of the people that actually listen to his show and resonate.

With his me, his core message, and here we are enjoying each other's company and seeing that we're not alone in the way with that, we

think. Yeah, and I actually had a brief chat with Tom yesterday and I said, Tom, you set this up, but you don't have a whole lot to do with it anymore. You pressed the start button and people went and did what?

Wanted him to do and created a community, and he's man, yeah. I can't pop into every group. It's yeah, there's too many of them, too many people now. But that's

what happens when you have people who are motivated and they have the fire burning inside and they just need something to just light the spark.

with the Ron Paul campaign in: 2000

ever say.

is right across the river in: 2008

Honestly was crazy. There were so many people I couldn't even get into. Wherever they're having the thing and the pop, the amount of people like lined up around hotel or convention center in downtown v Vancouver was nuts. He got outta there. I don't even know what he said. , but he got out and this is Ron Paul.

I, he was like 70 year old man. Not very charismatic, he had the words, people running, af running after the limo. You like Ron, and he's just like waving outside, I was like, man, w when it's this big of a frenzy for this guy or the message, how does he not get votes in this country?

I think they. They were pretty open. They designed their campaign to win delegates, but they were not expecting to win. They knew what they were up against,

right? Oh, yeah, for sure. But I just I see. I just have less faith in the American public, I guess when you see that, like clearly the guy with the best message is not even close to sniffing it.

It's

the best message to you. Yeah, but to the vast majority it's total rubish the average

person. That's what we're trying to change here on the show. James, you and me. Right now you're in internet marketing and you're in the podcast space. That's a broad, that's a broad definition, right?

But why don't you tell us a little bit about your I guess lack better terms, your business.

I'm in the publishing business. The publishing business is not that much different than it was in the 17 hundreds, 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds. The modalities have changed drastically. , but the the basic product.

Is the same thing as it was in Ben Franklin's time when he's publishing in Philadelphia. It's not that much different. What has changed is how the message is disseminated. Like I specialize in podcasts, right? And I've done audiobooks. I haven't done anything in print, but it's the, it, when you get right down to it you're building a personality brand.

And it doesn't matter how it's disseminated the main. Is essentially the same as it has always been. , I think people get caught up in the newness of some of the internet things. I, it baffles me how people get, they're consumed with search engine optimization.

Yeah. You mentioned that actually in your email, the in your email the other day.

And I, I would we'll have the link to. Have you sign up for James email in the show notes. But you mentioned that in your in your email the other day. It's man, I'm glad I signed up for this guy's email, because this is what everybody says and nobody admits

people. People are like, if we don't have seo, we're gonna go bankrupt.

We have to have Google AdWords and we have to have this, and we have to have that if we're gonna stay relevant. And the truth of the matter is you can pour tens of thousands of dollars into. Campaign, that campaign, and then you'll end up on page three of Google. If you're lucky, you may as well not exist.

What you need to focus on is your message. , the one thing that you're, the hill that you're willing to die on. Wh what is the thing that you will risk everything that means something to you say. that will get people's attention. Tho those things that are on the first page of Google one, they're all sponsored, and two, if they're lucky enough to get there they're loaded with ads and they have more ads than actual content and it's worthless.

I have a hard time figuring out what search engine is the best anymore. Duck go. I started with, okay, I started with Google, went to Duck, duck go, and then recently I've been doing Brave, but I run into problems with all of 'em because the throttling and or ability to like, get through, but I'm an Alta Vista man myself with Duck, duck, go I don't know.

I I took duck go off of my Computer. I still have it on my phone, but took it off my computer because of the CEO came out like a month a few months ago and said something about they were gonna censor disinformation or some crap like that. Oh, that's not good. I've been trying other things out and I hopped between, like I said duck, go chrome and brave.

Google and brave. But what ends up happen, Like you're saying is you end up getting a lot of ads anyway. Yeah. Or a lot of articles that ha hit all the keywords and then you're like, God, what? , I just wasted five minutes Yep. Deciphering this and I don't know. There, there's gotta be a better way out there.

And I,

the thing with SEO is you're focusing on people that have not discovered you yet. You are banking on people who have no idea that you. finding you. That is your strategy. Yeah. You are far better off creating a brand, and having a really crystal clear message that solves a problem.

And then telling your Yeah, and telling your mom about it. Who will tell her friends, tell people close to you. That's how. All advertising has ever worked is word of mouth. Yeah. And that's lost in this mess of seo.

I got two things to say on that. One. You say with your work on podcasts, it's primarily word of mouth, right?

If I'm Oh yeah. That's how you've gotten your business. And then two, you also said, I don't know if it's a mantra of yours, but you say, make a living at what you're good at. So if you're good at this thing that you're telling people about, It's gonna, it's gonna emerge that, yeah, you are gonna get that word of mouth and people are gonna tell you because you've created this personality for yourself or your business or whatever.

It's a, it has a image. In other words,

I've seen people who play the accordion, weird AL'S instrument and they can play box toccata and fugue in D miner on the accordion, and it's stunning. . . And these people make their living playing the accordion. Wow. Yeah, don't say that it, this can't be done if you have passion.

People are attracted to passion and it doesn't matter what the modality is. People love the passion. That's what

find attracted. And you are a musician yourself, trumpet, right? Yes. And you've been a trumpet player your entire

life. I started when I was eight and I'm now 46. So I'd say pretty much my entire life, my trumpet podcast is, really the reason that I still play trumpet.

And that's how you

started podcasting too? Correct. I got

into podcasting in: 2015

That was in: 2016

Yeah. You played the trumpet. You were in the army. That's right. I know a little bit about it and we'll get to it more, but so you were in the Army band Yep. Playing the trumpet? Yeah. That's how you, that's how you got into the army or they recruited you to play the trumpet or how did

that work?

I first joined the military when I was when I was recruited, when I was in high school. I was the, like the star. In the school band and, okay, if I was gonna be in the military there, I wouldn't do anything other than music cuz that was just, that was what was important to me. And so I did four years and then got out, went back in 10 years later, not my best move.

But it is what it is.

So you ma Yeah. You mentioned that you were on a podcast with Tom several years ago, and it was probably about this story that, I guess we can talk about getting back out of the military and I dunno we'll have that show with Tom in the show notes, the ba basic outline.

What I know is you got out of the army as a conscientious objector. Actually. Maybe

not. It was like an administrative type of separation, so it wasn't officially, they have this whole process of leaving the military. Like you, if you don't like your job, or if you find certain aspects of your civilian job morally objectionable, you just put in your two weeks or you come to an agreement with your employer and say I can't do this anymore.

And I'm. I'm gonna go bail. Hey, the military is very different. Once you sign your name on the contract, it is set in stone. You can't get out of it.

Yeah. They more or less own own you lack of better terms. Like it's not much different than that.

GI is short for government issue, oh, sure. If, and if you sign. Yeah. Then they own you. Yeah. It doesn't mean that you don't have civil rights. It, it's, , it doesn't sound as draconian as we're making it out to be but they, but they really do, for all intents and purposes.

But there is a whole process and there's actually a whole. Regulation that's a hundred pages long on how to exit the military as a conscientious objector, then the means that I did was not illegitimate. It wasn't dishonest, it wasn't unethical. I followed the rules. Ultimately, it was we j we just found a way cuz the process was taking an exorbitant amount of time and which was adding a lot of stress to my life and whatnot.

But so we found like an administrative way to do it. I didn't leave with the designation from the military as a conscientious objector, but who really cares? If putting your uniform on in the morning causes you cognitive dissonance at every moment that your uniform is on, you don't even care what rank you are anymore.

Like I said earlier, I, I rejoined the military at this point. I had been employed by the Birch Society and I had educated myself quite a bit and I had listened to Ron Paul talking. Blow back at the famous conve or the debate in South Carolina, which put him on the. and that opened my eyes too, a lot.

So I was already had a lot of concerns about the military the American military in particular, being a, like this global police force

and you didn't wanna be part, you didn't wanna be part of a global police force.

I think I rationalized it at the time saying I'm playing my instrument.

This is doing, I'm doing this for my musical career. And that rationalization. For a time, but it came, got to a point where it was it just wasn't compatible with my beliefs. I was listening to Tom reading Lou Rockwell, the word that they use, and this is an actual word in the military regulation, it is crystallized.

Like you can have a, you can have an objection to something, but over time it either weakens or it solidifies. And in my case, my convict. crystallized to the point. Got it. Where it was just I couldn't respect myself to be in the Army. And you were overseas at the time, huh? Yeah, when I did the paperwork, I was in Korea, which added to the stress.

Yeah. And then, and you talked in more in detail with Tom on this whole thing. And I it's funny cuz you mentioned that you were, you told me that your conscious OB objector. To the Army and I'm like, God, I remember a Tom Wood show with a guy that was a conscious checker. I wonder if what James I'm thinking like, what?

I wonder what James thinks about this guy.

And it turns out it was me. . Yeah, it was you, . There have been a few, I think the Pavones were on his show a while back. Okay. And then I talked about my story a little bit. So

you get into podcasting, we'll kinda yada, throw it. And you now have a podcast that is fairly regular.

And you.

That's correct. My, my wife is Persian and vosh Don is a word. I think the closest word in English would be the Christian word, righteousness. If you're, if you have a religious faith and you think of the word righteousness, what does that mean to you? Like conviction, integrity.

You're honest you're just, , you go about your business with intention. , you have a purpose loosely translated, that's VO on in Persian and my wife and I we're, she just got to the U, us from Vietnam. We just got her green card. She was over there and I was over here and we did a little podcast together.

We didn't, weren't trying to build an audience, we just. Did it cuz we liked it. I realized, we did this just so we could keep our bond together. . But my wife is a smart girl, she's smart. Like, why is she married to me? type of thing. I realized we have a tremendous potential to monetize this thing cuz people are desperate for the type of and I say this with all humility, they're desperate for integrity.

because you see very little of it in our culture and we can meet a need. No, I

agree. And I find it. . Pretty interesting you say that because I've been talking with a few people about, not that I'm any good at what I do, but I'm working on it. And I came across one of your podcasts the other day.

It's from May. I believe. I listened to the whole thing. It's, the title is How People Make Money with Podcasts. And I thought your explanation of this was very good because. At the beginning, I guess I will expose myself a little more. When I started down this internet marketing path, it was several years ago and I just wasn't particularly consistent at it and I started being more consistent about it a little over a year ago.

And then really, Got back into podcasting only a few months ago. But my point being is that your explanation on how to, how people make money with podcasts the initial reaction is like, oh, I gotta get ads. I need people to plug in my ads, and they need to pay me for talking. It's like you had the realization long before I did, and it's a very calm, insane realization that no, what we need to do.

is you need to develop who you are and you need to develop your voice. And so I'm like, oh, I guess that's what I'm doing. I'm, I have all these people on my show because I didn't have a direction necessarily of where I wanted to go. People's oh, what are, what's your podcast about? I don't know.

I'm just gonna have a bunch of people on that are interesting to me and we'll talk about it. But really I've tailored it to lately anyhow, is that all these very interesting people from the Tom Woods realm, James gave me this idea, just set up a website with all those interviews. I was like, okay, great idea.

That's what I'm gonna do. Thanks for your consulting and it's, I bought it is now. Who is in the tom woods world.com, who

is in the Tom Woods world, definitely exceeds the three syllable threshold.

Yeah It is what it's,

that's what Google says is the requirement for an effective

Yes. SCL people.

Yeah. We've talked about Google already on this project, but, so anyway. How people make money with podcasts. We're working on it. My I'm gone. I've retrenched. I'm back to just trying to create. a good podcast, a good newsletter and then we're gonna, we're gonna go from there.

But I think that's the first step that people often skip. The first step. Best

way I can answer that is you make money with a podcast by building an audience, and then you sell stuff to 'em. And just, like I said, that's publishing going back millennia. Yeah. And we're trying to, that's how you make money with it.

We're trying to build an audience

here. And then the challenge in this modern era is sticking out because everybody's got a podcast. , there's such a low threshold of, a barrier of entry is so low. Everyone can do this. Like you're recording this in your garage or your spare bedroom.

I'm in a corner of a very large living room recording this. . . And this is how I've done my shows for years. . Everyone has one. And the challenge is how do you stick out? ? You stick out by being yourself, which is terrifying to people. We want to shun the spotlight. . But in order to be effective, if you wanna build an audience, you have to put the spotlight square on yourself.

Which is uncomfortable. It makes us feel like we're narcissist, we're arrogant jerks, but you're not. If you do it the right. Like you, you just introduced your show. I'm Brian O'Leary and this is the Brian, this is the O'Leary review. Yeah, it's very subtle, but it's very powerful and just doing these little interviews that you're doing, you're making yourself a leader in the Tom Woods School of Life like you are becoming.

The conduit by how other school of life members get to know each other. It's really impressive. Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. You had the idea and then you acted on it. People, we, we love to overcomplicate things, but it's really not as difficult as just getting people interested in what you have to say.

Yeah. Saying it in a way that's enter. Fun to listen to and then sell stuff to 'em. I give all the

credit to like you and everybody else who's come on this show because they're the interesting ones. I'm just like trying to elicit more talking. They're you guys to talk more about like how interesting your life is because I'm trying to learn from everybody else.

I'm 45 years old too. I'm starting over again for the several of time, if that's a word. You're

Ed Sullivan. Ed Sullivan had the charisma of a bag of sawdust, . But he's how the world got to know the Beatles. Yeah. It was through his show. He was the conduit. Yeah. Between these great entertainers and the public.

So yeah. Never don't discount what you're doing just because you have a small audience. It's very important what you're doing. Oh, tell us

what the podcast, Bob o. What you're trying to do now with that. I know you started out as just a banter between, not a banter, but a conversation really between you and your wife, long distance.

But is that kinda your main focus, what

we want to do with this? What I want to do with this Bob o Don, I don't know if she's on board with it yet, but just interview people who just approach their life or their career with integrity, intention. , they show votan. In their life. . I like that because it doesn't box us into, we have to talk about this and we have to talk about this topic.

We can talk about any topic. Tom Woods does his work with Votan a liberal Democrat. Might do their work with Votan even though I don't disagree or I don't agree with them on a lot of political things. But if they have one thing where they are solid, like Tulsa Gabbard is a great example. , we, you and I would disagree with her on a lot of key things, but she's really solid and she, the very principle. When it comes to foreign policy, yeah,

I think that's how I see my all allies in this world are what you said, princip principled people. Now you can think whatever you want, as far as I'm concerned, base it on principles and like legitimate principles as opposed to emoting.

I think oftentimes in this culture, people just emote. It's I don't really tell me what you think, not what you feel. And that's how we're gonna get places down. It, if your feelings are hurt, sticks and stones, man. And it seems like that kind of thing is lost in the general culture.

Today

we just want to put a spotlight on that type of mentality with our show and we can talk to,

That's a great idea. And then I think with the other one, the other things you mentioned in this newsletter and one of our, I guess our problems in the internet marketing world, or maybe just people in general, is that we give too much credence to the opinions of others.

All I'm not exactly sure if that was the right wording. I have it here. It says yeah, giving much two credence to what people think about their show, business message, et cetera. And I thought that was right on the money because we get bogged down like you're saying. We get bogged down all the noise, and the signal.

We don't want the

signal to shine through it. You take feedback with a grain of salt. You consider the source. If someone who is better than. and has been added longer than you has some feedback for you, you listen to 'em, especially if you ask them for

their feedback. Great example. And so in this Tom Wood School of Life, we have these webinars that go on at least usually once once a week or twice a month.

And Tom was the. leader of this webinar last, I think it was last week and several months ago. He asked for writing samples, and so I sent him in a writing sample. I'm like, I don't know if this piece is any good, but if you're looking for samples here you go. Like I, I worked pretty hard on it and I like the message, but I'm not really sure if the writing's that good.

And so I didn't realize that this would come out three months later or whatever, but. , but he picked my sample for the webinar. He didn't use names or anything, but it was mine. And the interesting thing is like every, everything he had to say about he critiqued it pretty good and everything he had to say I totally agreed with, because I c it was like one of these things I couldn't get over.

That hump or whatever, I knew that it was clunky and weird, but I just wrote it and I sent it off. It was part of my daily newsletter, but it got picked up by Lou rockwell.com , and two days later it was on Lou Rockwell front page. And I'm like, I don't even the message is good, but I don't, I just feel a little.

I dunno about the, my, my writing. And then in this webinar Tom, pointed out all the flaws and I talked to him later and he is actually your piece was really good, but I can't do, I can't say that in the webinar when we're critiquing writing. So the message, he said the message was good, but yeah, you, you're pretty good, but work on this.

And so I do that's my deal. I'm, I work on the stuff that my mentors. Tell me I need to

work on Yes. And you specifically sought his feedback on your writing, correct? I think the context to that, that I was thinking of when I wrote that and that you're mentioning now is someone out of the clear blue sky,

right?

Some random Twitter jerk. Start to launch in

India, or it could be someone who listens to your show or reads your email or whatever the, however you get your message out and then you think, oh my God, everybody thinks that, oh yeah. I have to change this. I have to change that.

That's where it gets to be really you. You're gonna shoot yourself in the foot if you think one person represents everybody, they don't. Yeah. That's just one person's opinion. If by. Lucky chance they're actually respectful on the internet. Then. Great. But most of the time you say thank you for your time.

If they're idiots, you can use that as fodder for your next email. Say, check out what? , somebody had a really bad day or what, whatever you say. Yeah. You make fun of them. You right. Use it as banter for your next content. You can't get so riled up with one comment and think that represents the totality of who's listening to you.

It doesn't. , most people don't care. And then the one person that does care and is negative, so what they're having a bad day Monetize your haters. I think people hear that and they're like, okay, bring it on. And then they get one person that says one thing that's remotely negative and oh, I've got a hater.

I've got a hater. Yes, I've been waiting so long for a hater. Now I'm gonna take this person, I'm gonna humiliate them. I'm gonna burn them on the stake.

It works. It works for people with bigger fallings. If I, if you have few thousand followers. It works because you have, your bulk of your audience is, are people who really like you, but if the percentages go down and you have a couple hundred people and you start taking on haters, you might get swallowed up by the troll farm.

Yeah. And you don't want to be the one that's perceived as the one that's mentally imbalanced either. Yes. So you just, you have to do it the right way. I

agree with that there . Yeah. There, there's, there is a nuance into monetizing here. Exactly. There

has to be, you have to know what you're doing and more importantly why you're doing it.

Yeah, and too many people just think Tom Woods. Humiliated somebody on Twitter and that's gonna be how I do it. . And that may not necessarily work out for you.

I dunno how into sports you are. But like I said, I used to have a sports podcast and we'll still do hibernation.

There's a sports writer for the Baseball Hall of Fame voting. A lot of these guys now to be transparent, Of who they vote for. They take a picture of their ballot and put it on Twitter. This one sports writer put his ballot on there, and it was just like an insane ballot of who he picked and who he didn't pick.

But, so I said, what a pud. Blocked . Yeah, I got blocked by this guy. But then yesterday he broke some news. Yesterday I was, I'm recording this with James, where Aaron Judge was going to the San Francisco Giants for a giant contract. I wake up this morning, Aaron Judge signs for nine years, 360 million or something, like for with the Yankees.

And I'm like, okay, legitimate. My criticism to the guy, it's like, just whatever. It's too bad. Like generally the media as we, and that's, I don't, not necessarily on topic, but the media in general. These days is or I don't know, these days it's always been that way.

They haven't really been the most top-notch people and, but we trust them as if they are same thing. I, and it goes with school teachers and government officials and all this stuff. Like they're way better than us. They're not like they're, these are people that, I don't know what it is about 'em, but it's just that they're like, in general, they're not impressive people.

but they're in a position that makes them by default. I dunno. It's

an interesting can of worms. You're opening. Yeah.

Maybe for, maybe we put a bookmark in it if for another podcast down the line. Because I think we're running outta time

here quickly. I wonder if some of those people though they agree with you.

There's nothing special about me, but everybody puts the me on a pedestal. Maybe there is something special about me. I wonder about the psychology of that. That is, yeah. That'd be interest. That'd be interesting to. How that type of influence and power changes a person's perception of

themselves. So you're in the podcast space, and again, like we talked about, internet marketing broad definition of what podcast the podcast space is, but you have your own podcasts, but really you're success in the realm helping other people get better at their podcasts.

From what I understand, from what I understand I've only known you for a few weeks. Your body of work lends, credence, respectability for what you do on your, for your own brand. But the whole point of how you got to where you are, I believe is just to, is that You're helping other folks or clients create much better shows for themselves.

hink it was March or April of: 2018

Okay. And I actually tried to get Tom on Ben's show and for. Reasons. Unbeknownst to me, Tom declined. So Tom, if you're listening, get on Ben's show, , he'd be good for you. Okay, I'm just gonna put that out there. . All right. Now Ben is highly influential in the realm of health and fitness. I'd never heard of him.

. But I just got on that show, or, in that supporting role, and I just treated it like it was my own. Okay. Said, this is my show. It's not my show, but I treated it like if I was, this is my show and I'm gonna I just hit it out of the park. And I say this with all humility. I really did a really good job on it.

A couple years after this I did a another service for him and part of the comp a compensation for the service that I did was for him. Promote my business. Okay. On his show. All right. And that's how I, that's how I got the current clients that I have now.

So this thing with Ben was a one, wa a one-off deal or did you, you had an ongoing,

if you want an example of a great way to do a podcast.

Uhhuh study. Ben Greenfield. Okay. My goodness. The guy has a loyal, rabid fan base. Okay. People will listen to whatever he recommends. If you're looking. Inspiration for how to do a podcast. Listen to Ben Greenfield. Okay. That's how I got into it. I don't do any advertising. , it's 100% beyond that shout out on, on that one show.

People talk about who does your podcast. Oh, James does a great job. You need to call 'em. Okay. And that's how I, that's how I get my

business. You say you don't do any advertising, but I wanna bring this back to the internet marketing. You have call to action in your email newsletters. I would. I would imagine.

Your own business. So that, essentially it's not traditional advertising, but you say like in the, you're in the, you're a publisher, you're not a tradit, not doing traditional publishing, but you're also not doing traditional advertising.

It's word of mouth. That's the best kind of advertising.

What chiropractor are you gonna choose? Somebody who's got a great ad on, on the web or somebody that you know and trust has recommended. Your back hurts. You gotta go to this guy. Or this girl. , who are you gonna choose? You're gonna go with what your friend recommends.

That's the way route that I've taken with my advertising is just do a bang up job for the people that I serve. And then they're just naturally, when the conversation goes to their podcast, they're gonna say, There's nobody else I would recommend other than James. James, are you And

it's worked?

Yeah. And we're, you're still doing it. And we can provide, like I said, I'm gonna provide links for James' newsletter and website in In our show notes, and then you can, if you're looking, if you're looking for that stuff, it's interesting too to me. I said Syd, if you're looking for help in that realm for your podcast, just to contact James, I've been thinking about oh man what am I gonna do?

What's my product? What's my product? I thought I do a lot of this stuff that you're talking about, James. I produce my own podcast and I don't really know. I know what I'm doing, but I just learned by watching videos and reading articles and stuff like, and try on error big time.

It's caused me, yeah, cost caused me a lot of days of my life just in front of the computer and potential carpal tunnel syndrome in the future. But yeah, so I, when you joined our group, I'm like, that is exactly. What I thought I wanted to do, but I know he's way better than I'll ever be at this, so I'm just gonna keep on doing my own thing and just concentrate on my own stuff and let James take on all the people that I'm just gonna put push people towards James

That was my initial thought when you joined the group. And that's the first time we've actually talked about it, but put yourself in situations, I guess is my point. Yeah. You

are your product. , you are the product. . More people need to think that way. Tom Woods is the product of Tom Woods.

Sure. It's not the message, it's not libertarianism, it's Tom. Yeah. He's a personality brand. And your brand is jns.media. My wife's name is Sauna. . And my keyboard shortcut on my iPhone to type in James and Sauna is S Oh. And so that's how I got the name of the business. Jn S Media. Here you go, . I like it.

All right. Anything else you wanna plug? Talk to us about, and we got a couple minutes left here.

Shameless plug, if you're, if you want to work with me for podcasts, go to podcast artistry.com. If you know a trumpet player who is looking for a podcast to listen to trumpet dynamics.com, do you teach on that podcast?

It's not really teaching per se, but sometimes people will they'll share something, but the main emphasis. Like pedagogy or anything like that. Okay. And then the link for our Bobo Don podcast is vosh don.com. That's vo oj d a n.com. Okay. And I hate social media, so don't even ask

Alright. I won't but yeah it's so I'll have all the links and and all that stuff in our show notes. Just go from there, and James I really appreciate spending the time with us here and giving me some advice as we went through your. We'll touch base here soon enough.